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Tax the Rich — Who Cares?

With all of the news surrounding taxing the rich, I started to think, who cares? I mean, you didn’t hear this type of fuss when we jacked up the tax on cigarettes. My research says roughly 20% of Americans smoke cigarettes. Those people pay a tax that almost doubles the costs of their habit. Where is the outrage there? Instead we hear that the rich should not be taxed. After all, they earned their money, they are the job creators right?

I started to wonder, are there that many people who make $250,000 or more that would be impacted by this tax the rich plan? From the research I have done, roughly 3% of Americans are fortunate enough to achieve that level. So why do average Americans care?

I can only come up to two conclusions. The first is that because we all yearn to reach the rich threshold, we do not want to face being taxed at a higher rate. So I went out to determine what it means to be rich. A recent Gallup poll says Americans think they are rich at $150,000. On top of that, a recent study at Princeton concluded, people only need to make $75,000 to be happy. So why do we care about those unhappy folks at $250,000 and above?

According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the average American made $44,410 in 2010. For the sake of argument, let’s double that to $88,820. Keep in mind, we are now above the happy threshold. Now, since many household are duel income earners, let’s double the double again to $167,640. So now we consider ourselves rich, are near the individual earner happy zone and still have not reached the top 3%. Life is good. Besides, let’s be realistic, how many will really reach the $250,000 level?

The second factor I have to consider is that someone has planted in our heads that rich people create jobs. Really, Paris Hilton is creating jobs? I am not counting her entourage. Some rich people may be business owners, but they are not necessarily jobs creators, businesses create jobs. There is a difference. If you really want to create jobs, do not give tax breaks to the rich; give hiring vouchers to businesses. According to CNN, taxpayers paid $185 billion to cover the unemployed in 2011. That comes out to $10,500 per unemployed person. What if the government gave businesses that money for each person they hired this year? That would reduce the cost of employing another person, raise additional income tax money from their salary (which would off-set the voucher) and add 96% of the income back into the economy. (Our current savings rate is 4%). The rich didn’t create this happening, a voucher type program did. Now if the rich paid 1%-2% more in taxes, this voucher would be almost be paid and reduce the tax burden on everyone, except the $250,000 plus earners.

I do not believe $250,000 is that much in earnings. Someday I actually hope to reach this level and I do not want to have my taxes go up. Let’s put the floor at $500,000. After all, what do I care?

Steve

12:01 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

There was a huge fuss about raising the tobacco tax, but Doyle went ahead and did it anyway. Many radio and print ads.

Just for talking points, Paris Hilton actually does create jobs. All of the photographers that follow her around do not get paid for free. All of the entertainment magazines, websites and TV shows do not work for free. Every restaurant she spends money at, every store she purchases goods at, every home builder, contractor, travel agent, airline the list goes on.

We all spend money, those that make more spend more. The government needs to budget with what they take in like the rest of us. The idea that they can take more yet talk against corporate greed is hypocritical as usual.

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Steve

2:20 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Lets add more to the Paris Hilton file. Isn't she huge into marketing her name on products? Perfume, clothing, hand bags all need employes to design, market, manufacture, ship, receive, and sell. I am guessing she does not clean her own house and after her past issues should not drive a car when going out at night. All paid, created jobs.

Can't have dirt under those valuable finger nails. The landscaping is a created paid job. Which is a good thing neighbors wouldn't want pink bushes.

If she does enough public events on the go a paid stylist is on the payroll. Maybe even a separate hair dresser and clothing supplier/designer.

Got to look good in those pictures, a paid trainer is a must. Give me one more sit up Miss Hilton feel the burn.

I could do this all day, but as a job creator myself the more business to business spending the more we all bennifit. I must get back to my patriotic duty.

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Gofaq Uurslf

3:26 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Pink bushes? Am I thinking something else?

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Steve

4:03 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

No what you are thinking of have been shaved down to the trunk. What I am referring to has not had any maintenance in some time but was died pink to make it look like it had.

The Donny Show

12:34 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Tax the poor. What do I care. I'm not poor. Anyone taking from society ought to start giving back.

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Gofaq Uurslf

1:52 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Nicely done to Steve (as always). Let's tax M. Chavannes and give it all to me.

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Gofaq Uurslf

3:25 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

The more I think about it, tax everyone more. My wealth is offshore any ways.

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James R Hoffa

3:46 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

The rich already carry a disproportionate majority of the overall tax burden - how much more do you want to take from them?

It's not a matter of envy for those of us on the right that are not rich, as the author is subtly suggesting it should be, but rather a matter of fundamental fairness!

How about we start taxing the near 50% that don't pay anything at all in federal income tax?

Oh, and the excise/consumption tax on cigs is to make up for the damage that such individual habit causes and costs our society as a whole - in case you didn't hear, smoking is actually quite bad for you and those around you. It's the right of the individual to engaging is such activity, however, but if you want to play, then you had better be prepared to pay - personable responsibility!

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Keith Schmitz

8:42 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

How is it disproportionate. In this country the rich are left with a ton of money. None of them eat of dumpsters.

Seriously, the income inequality in this country is undemocratic and economically unsustainable.

What do you benefit by defending the status quo?

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Steve

11:15 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

You can move out of and into higher income brackets. Defining what is too much or a "ton" is how we get to be like Europe.

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JWU

12:17 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

@Keith Schmitz: There are always going to be rich people. You need to get over it. They did better than us; they are probably better educated and they may even be more physically appealing when they're all coiffed-up. No reason to beat them into the ground. Heck, they are already paying our taxes, we should thank them for it.

Alfie

3:46 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

These lefties will get a good taste of 'trickle down' economics when the socalled rich they want to tax will stop doing the things rich folks do...hiring landscapers, contractors, buying stuff, taking vacations, etc etc...

Liberalism is simply equalizing misery.

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Craig

4:40 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Half of all wage earners pay zero tax. Zip, Zilch, Nada.
We gift income tax money to lower wage earners because we do not have welfare anymore. Maybe we should tax everyone?
Unemployment compensation is taxed. So giving a credit to employers for hiring an unemployed person will not do much for USA's spending problems.
We still need to CUT SPENDING!
Even if we double the tax on the rich, we still need to cut spending.

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Keith Schmitz

8:39 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Another BS fallacy because everyone pays all kinds of taxes.

Anybody with a brain realize that the reason why those people don't pay taxes is, get this, THEY HAVE NO MONEY.

So hard to figure out.

Oh, and by the way half of those people have some kind of disability.

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Craig

8:56 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Keith: Half of the 50% who pay no income tax are disabled?
I think your disability is clear to the rest of us if that is your contention.
Many low wage earners get all of their withholding back- and then some.
Here is a wake up call for you, Keith- Those of us who do pay taxes have no money either. So quit your crying and get your hand out of the donation jar.
The Country is $15 Trillion in debt, and you think it isn't a spending problem?
That makes you an idiot. Being stupid is not a legitimate disability.

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JWU

12:19 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

@Keith Schmitz: "those people", which is Half of American wage earners "HAVE NO MONEY" and 50% of that population is disabled? Can you cite any reference to support that silly claim?

Can't wait for your book to come out: "All I Know About THOSE PEOPLE" by Keith Schmitz.

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Craig

7:12 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Keith never takes his checkbook out- or any other book for that matter.
Speaking about books Keith....

J. B. Schmidt

10:09 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

I am not sure whether Chavannes is attempting to actually make a point or if this is strictly satire. His closing comment about what dollar figure to implement his tax the rich scheme would appear to discredit his entire article. If 'Who Cares' is the theme and the author in the end shows that he himself cares about taxation; then doesn't he discredit himself. The article should have been about titled, Tax the Other Guy.

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Jill Lane

1:01 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Rich people hire landscapers, hairdressers, caterers, interior decorators, accountants, lawyers, etc... They also go to restaurants, buy cars, support the arts and donate to social causes. When they stop spending money on those things it's the middle class who feels it.... people like landscapers, hairdressers, car salesmen... you get my point. Just close the loopholes which keep everyone from paying their fair share.

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Keith Schmitz

8:35 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

They also create bubbles, they buy politicians, they ship jobs overseas, bank money overseas...you get my point.

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Steve

11:18 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

No no gets your point. I didn't know you could hire someone from Thailand to mow your lawn, cut your hair, cater your meal, decorate your house, do your books and defend you in court.

John T. Pokrandt

7:21 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

235301: I agree with you on parental responsibility for their children's education. As the parent of young children, I can tell you the value of being involved in your childrens' school life. Where we digress is on the cause of income equality. The cause of income inequality is predominantly the outsourcing of jobs and the recession that has decimated small businesses. Couple that with the reluctance of banks to lend and or refinance and you have the perfect storm. Last year I made $20,000 less than I did in 2008 and my wife was laid off on New Year's Eve. We are both professionals and made no bad decisions other than not selling our home at the top of the market and renting. It's government policy that allowed the outsourcing and the idea that we can simply slash taxes and wages to regain jobs is a lie. Sure, we can deregulate to compete with China, eventually we can make $2 a day too. Keep in mind I am only talking about the growth in income equality between the middle class and the wealthy. The issue of the poor is structural and entitlements are only part of the puzzle.

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Alfred

7:27 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Damn John, I am so glad I didnt vote for you, you certainly did a good job of sounding moderate, you are a damn socialist.

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Keith Schmitz

8:33 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

And being a socialist is bad because...?

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Steve

11:19 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

At some point you run out of someone else's money. We have found that point.

John T. Pokrandt

8:09 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Alfred, did you actually read my post? If your take away is that I am "a damn socialist" I will assume that you did not.

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Alfred

1:17 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Ron, is your last name Dumbass? Do you honestly think the gubmint was taking 90% of a person's income back in the 'good ole days'? That Buick you saw the rich guy driving was purchased by a loan which all of the interest was deductible, and that rich guy wasn't saddled with the kind gubmint and regulations we have today. Ron Dumbass, why don't you see how much fun it is to make a payroll and run a business and see how much fun it is.

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JWU

1:55 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

@Ron Abalone: You sound jealous. Change religions to one that supports reincarnation, and come back for a second try to become a 1 percenter. Go to school, study hard, take some risk and who knows. You may be a CEO one day in the next life.

Ron Abalone

1:53 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Alfred -
Answer this question from me, the "Dumbass" (thanks for capitalizing it):
If Mr. 1% of olden days got deductible interest (same as everyone) and did not have all those regulations to deal with, why is today's Mr. 1% so much richer than joe middle class today?. The well known gap between the middle class and the 1% is accelerating.
And I know poor people that would not call someone a "Dumbass" for just asking a reasonable question. No wonder the middle class is suspicious of all this political sympathy and support the 1% beg us to give them.

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CowDung

2:11 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Perhaps it has something to do with companies being so much larger and complex these days--the responsibilities of the CEO has grown tremendously over the past few decades as more and more businesses grow to global proportions...

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Ron Abalone

2:49 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

CowDung - I will give you that companies have become much bigger, and CEOs have bigger jobs. I invest in over 70 public companies, and if you do that type of investing also, have you noticed most of the proxy statements are primarily devoted to voting on higher compensation packages for those CEOs, whether stock options, bonuses, performance incentives, higher annual salaries, golden parachutes, etc.? And the pay does not vary that much between their good years and bad. I swear they must spend half their time optimizing their total pay packages.
So the compensation system for the top 1% has changed drastically, not like the old factory CEO that drove the new Buick, earned 10 times more than the factory worker, but definitely lacked the hubris of the international CEO with the stable of Lamborghinis and Bugattis.

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Steve

3:04 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

So your solution is to tax the rich guy at 90%, giving the government the money which they will waste and spend on their friends, like Solondra. Or over promise entitlements and spread the wealth which very few ever see.

Or

Enact laws that limit the amount of money you can earn as personal income. Requiring the extra to be split up by the employees or taxes that go back into the government creating the situation outlined above.

So basically in a nut shell communism. Which has proved such a success woldwide.

Since when are profits evil and stuff, or are you just incapable of creating more income yourself?

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Ron Abalone

3:35 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Steve - No, I would not tax the wealthy 1% at 90%, more like the pre-Bush tax rates. The Solandra situation needs to be investigated by a Republican special prosecutor. Entitlements need to curtailed where needed in the new economic world created by the Great Recession.
No, I would not put a limit on how much an individual can make, they just end up in a marginally higher tax bracket.
And I am definitely not a Communist or even a socialist. Good god man, your back in the Cold War.
I think I would be safe in matching my net worth to yours, and winning. You may beat me on current income, but not when matching my previous earning years.
You are trying to demonize me, I never said anything like what you are attributing to me. As a spokesman for the super-rich, you may want to drop back to blogging about your belief that professional wrestling is an honest sport.

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Steve

4:07 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

I was a real wrestler, hate that fake crap. The rich are rich because of freedom in the market, I will defend that rich or poor myself.

I don't see any bennifit to raising taxes, aka revenue on anyone right now. The gov. can not control it's spending. As a young business owner I don't see any reason to reward their bad habits, especially with income that will not reduce the problem. When you get someone to quick smoking crack the last thing is to let them smoke crack all day for years on end.

The highlight of this is Obama, the senate and the house did not raise taxes when they had the optimal opportunity and full control. Obama keeps talking about it, pay your fair share whatever that means.

Your solution does not do anything to reduce the super rich or close the "gap" between the middle class. It just raises their taxes 4-5% and reduces their spending 4-5%. It's symbolism, hey we got you while some of us depend on that 5% spending. Even if the spending is savings or asset collection.

Alfred

2:11 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Dumbass, is that french? Mr 1% got more than deductible interest my friend, Mr 1% didnt have OSHA, EPA and other lard ass gubmint pencil pushers climbing up his backside everyday if he made a mistake. Mr 1% also didn't have employee benefits as his number one expense , more than the costs of goods sold. You seem so envious, Ronald Dumbass, have you ever had to make payroll, sell a product, run a business? Maybe your mythical Mr 1% never existed, maybe Mr 1% was owned by the bank and he had no net worth.
Who are the 1% Mr Dumbass? Is it based upon net worth, salary, what is it, and why do you have such a hard on for someone who is successful?

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JWU

2:23 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Referring to someone as a Dumbass in French would be
vous êtes un connard

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JWU

5:09 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

C'est très amusant quelque temps!

The Donny Show

2:30 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

How about we just go to a 15% flat tax. Then apologists like Keith (btw when is that loan going to be paid off?) can drop the "dont pay their far share" bologna.

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JWU

3:14 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

@Steve ... thank you. Certainly appears from the article that the money was used for operating expenses .... which did not include buying any books. Sounds like the Solyndra of Shorewood!

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Steve

3:55 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Yep. A bad business model from the beginning but the gov. seems to find those and invest, just like Solyndra. You don't have any customers, meh no worry here is some money because you fit the mold of what we are trying to force on the public.

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JWU

4:03 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

The bookstore fiasco paints him as someone that likes the game when it's played on his terms, but then argues against any initiatives that support small business owners .... because they are suddenly the bad guys that are only out to screw the working man and woman of WI. Hypocritical, indeed.

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Alfred

4:32 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Simply CCAP any of the regular lefties on Patch and you will see a litany of unpaid bills, foreclosures and other shenanigans where they do not honor their word in paying what they say. Typical of the left, no reason to candy coat who they are, expose them for the lying snakes that we all know they are.

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Bren

4:58 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

I must share my opinion that I find it distasteful when posters choose to investigate other commenter(s) on this website with whom they disagree, then post personal information about them on Patch. It's a different issue if someone has written an article under the Patch banner using their own name. But these threads are really provided for info-tainment--they have no legal intent or purpose.

I'm sure it's not intended, but it could appear as bullying. I believe these boards provide a valuable opportunity to share information and hone viewpoints.

Ron Abalone

2:31 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Alfred - The 1% is the top 1% in income, versus the rest of us (the 99%). You are making my point for me. Mr. 1% in those days did not have all the horriible government regulations, but he was not as relatively rich as the same 1% today. As far as OSHA and the EPA, those were responses to abuses to working people and the land,by companies.

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Alfred

2:35 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Mr Ronld Dummas, let's get personal, shall we? Who in WIsconsin is made up of the 1%, I want names. Why not go after them personally with your pitchforks and rakes and take to them? Who is the 1%? Enough of this lame strawman, wussified liberal male nonsense, who do you hate?

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Ron Abalone

3:10 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Alfred - I have concluded you would personally not be in the top 1% of income, unless you inherited your company and very, very recently. I believe I am also safe in concluding that you are not a paid blogger, unless it is from the left.
I would need to name tens of thousands of people to name the 1% in Wisconsin, and I do not have anyone's income tax forms, unless they are politicians and have disclosed them.

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Alfred

3:15 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Ronald, not to blow my own horn but I do have a net worth in excess of $1,000,000 since I paid off my house, I own it and I am a saver. Some of your kind consider me part of the 1% since my net worth is that magical number , but my net income is not $1,000,000. Do you realize how silly you sound wailing and howling about this class of people that you don't know who they are? You sound like a crazy person.

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JWU

3:19 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

@Alfred: Your hard work has paid off. Well done. Here's hoping that you will get to keep the fruits of your labor and not have it given away to those that dream about entitlements.

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Ron Abalone

3:48 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Alfred
No I would not consider you part of the 1%, more like a middle class person tipping toward the upper end. My net worth is also over $1M, my house and second house ares paid for, no debt, I save. My current income is not nearly as high as it was.
I think a big difference is that I am not sociopathic. I do not call people that have a different point of view Dumbasses right off the bat, or wailers, howlers, silly, and crazy.

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Randy1949

4:36 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

@Alfred -- I compute the 1% by income rather than net worth. You can be a 'millionaire' on paper but have a much lower yearly income. You do realize that income tax breaks for people earning millions in a single year ends up raising taxes for those on down the earning scale to make up for it. It raises property taxes as well.

You paid for your house, so you ought to be able to live in it regardless of your income. Same goes for me.

Alfred

4:26 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

No Ron, you are a psychopath who wants to take my stuff(and oddly your stuff) and give it to the lazy ...out of guilt. You can only be a Dumbass, or crazy to open up your wallet for the lazy to help themselves.

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Ron Abalone

6:14 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

Alfred - A small percent of us go through life without the burden of a conscience. That would be very convenient and make life a lot simpler. I think what you are calling "guilt" is a concern for the greater good, and others who may not have been as fortunate in life.
Guilty as charged, I understand your contempt for such feelings.

Jay Sykes

4:41 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

@Ron Abalone... you said '...you noticed most of the proxy statements are primarily devoted to voting on higher compensation packages for those CEOs, whether stock options, bonuses, performance incentives, higher annual salaries, golden parachutes, etc.? And the pay does not vary that much between their good years and bad. I swear they must spend half their time optimizing their total pay packages.'

Some time ago, I too noted that compensation packages do not seem to vary with the stock or company performance. This causes me to vote against any and all directors on the compensation committee, every year.

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Ron Abalone

5:51 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012

@Jay - Good for you for reading the proxy materials and voting against those that have the nerve to be highly compensated for mediocre or worse results . Not sure who the stockholders are that seem to automatically vote for the incumbent CEO and all those complicit Directors on the Board. Having worked for and met with several CEOs of major companies, they are smart, work very hard and work during most of their waking hours, but no, never met one worth the tens of millions in annual pay many make.

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