What exactly is all the pork in this 'extreme' budget you are referring to?

I seem to recall something about being innocent until proven guilty. I would think that continuing to pay people suspected of very serious offenses like drunk driving, domestic abuse, and even rape is probably the right thing to do, considering that they haven't yet been proven guilty in a court of law.

Perhaps stopping pay after the initial conviction rather than after all appeals are exhausted would be the more reasonable approach...

@CowDung...You crack me up. No matter how you twist and spin it to defend Senator Darling, it still doesn't look very good for the Senator.

I thought I was defending the pay policy rather than defending Darling.

If you want to hear some spin, I'll make the claim that Rep. Patsch is now on record stating that she wants to take away pay and benefits from hardworking, middle class, union members who have not been convicted of any wrongdoing...

Representative Pasch, please stop your war against the middle class.

End the republican war on honesty, authenticity and fair play. Vote Pasch July 12 and August 9.

@Dave: How is it fair play and honesty when the Democrats have blindly supported unions (and vice versa) that have FORCED school districts to pay tens of millions more a year for a teacher-owned health insurance company, when the same insurance could be gotten elsewhere for less cost? That is the epitome of dishonest. How come so many responses have to be partisan? In defense of CowDung (boy, never thought I would type such a phrase ... ), he makes a valid and reasonable point that one should not lose pay unless proven guilty, period. It is what our country is founded on. Once convicted, then take the pay, and if it is overturned on appeal, give it back. What is unreasonable about that?

Sponsoring a bill giving money to your donors and then secretly asking the governor to veto hours later it is dishonest, inauthentic, and unfair. Oh, and Gary, link please.

"An amendment that Senator Darling sponsored would have allowed fired Milwaukee police officers - including those suspected of very serious offenses like drunk driving, domestic abuse, and even rape - to continue receiving pay until all of their appeals have been exhausted. "

I think that Pasch is being dishonest with her statement.

According to the Journal-Sentinal, the amendment that Darling supported wasn't to keep paying officers suspected of serious crimes like the ones Pasch mentioned--the law to eliminate pay in those cases was passed in 2008. In 2009, the law was extended to include 'lesser infractions, including department rule violations'. The amendment that Darling supported was to eliminate the second part and roll back the bill to the 2008 form. Darling then asked Walker to veto the amendment--she claims that it was because of her misunderstanding that Flynn could fire officers for 'basically no cause'.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/jun/28/alberta-darling/pay-fired-milwaukee-police-officers-Darling-does-/

Pasch even included the same falsehood on her campaign website...

http://sandyforsenate.ngphost.com/content/stunning-reversal

End the democrat led war on honesty, authenticity and fair play. Vote against Pasch July 12 and if necessary, August 9.

I urge all conservatives to vote in the Dem recall primary for Gladys Huber. Let's send Sandy to an early vacation....seems Illinois is a popular spot for Dem Senators.

Pasch equals Jim Doyle...........what a disaster.

No plan......more lies........wants us to be Minnesota.

Paschist the fascist

What is a teacher owned health insurance company? Which districts were forced to pay for this and how much more did it cost? Everyone should have affordable health care. Why are the Republicans so eager to prevent the poor from obtaining it? What should these folks do for health care? Many poor do work, by the way. And I don't understand the big deal about Democrats supporting unions. Republicans support corporations, Democrats support unions. Somebody has to fight for the working class and those in the majority of our legislature now certainly aren't fighting for us.

Just put the absentee ballots for all eligible voters in my family in the mail on Saturday all marked Sandra K. Pasch. Go Sandy!

Nanic:

It is the teacher union owned health insurance company that was being referred to, and yes, districts were pretty much forced to use them because of the collective bargaining. Most of the districts were using it. After the Walker bill passed, districts were able to shop around for a provider. In some cases, the Union owned company ended up lowering their price when they found out that they would have to compete with other providers.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/06/union-curbs-rescue-wisconsin-school-district

From the link:
""It was in the collective bargaining agreement that we could only negotiate with them," says Arnoldussen. "Well, you know what happens when you can only negotiate with one vendor." This year, WEA Trust told Kaukauna that it would face a significant increase in premiums.

Now, the collective bargaining agreement is gone, and the school district is free to shop around for coverage. And all of a sudden, WEA Trust has changed its position. "With these changes, the schools could go out for bids, and lo and behold, WEA Trust said, 'We can match the lowest bid,'""

Paul. You must be so proud of the Dem actions: hippie circus in Madison, hiding out in Illinois, dressing like zombies and disrupting a Special Olympics event, the "Fox Lies" teacher, local teacher unions refusing to pay the increased benefits contributions even after their state union officials stated "teachers accept increased contributions " thus resulting in needless layoffs, countless "Hitler" references, fake doctor excuses, slamming Walker for refusing to revisit smoking ban, ...oh the list goes on and on. With these actions, why would anyone in their right mind want to chose to go into public service ?
I'm sure your family is so proud!! Time to grow up, take your hand out of my wallet and earn an honest living!

Are we back in gradeschool--are you keeping score? How many broken teeth is a death threat worth? How many Hitler references are equal to the property vandalized by anti-Walker people?

Maybe we should just stick with criticizing or praising the candidates and discussing the issues instead of bickering about the 'mess of democracy'...

Correct, there is no rule that said schools had to take WEAC. There's also no rule that says that teacher have to be paid above minimum wage either. The point is that once WEAC is established as the health insurance provider, it seems to be next to impossible to choose an alternative. The situation in Kaukana seems to confirm that they also weren't trying very hard to provide the best price either--at least not until the school was able to solicit alternatives...

I guess you failed to understand my 'bickering' was actually examples of how ridiculous the 'tit for tat' was getting...

It's not a matter of 'for profit' or not, before the Collecive bargaining law, WEAC could refuse to approve contracts unless schools agree to have them as their health insurance provider. Now schools are free to select any health insurance provider they want.

Sandy Pasch supports the 14 Democrat senators who fled the state instead of doing their job in Madison. Since when did running away become heroic in America??
only to liberals.....VOTE ALBERTA DARLING. She ignored the chanting and the drum beating and did her job representing her constituents in the senate chamber.

VOTE HUBER !!!

Happy 4th. Make a liberal nuts...be happy, work hard, believe in family values....and vote Huber. Tell the Dems to keep their hands out of your wallet. Big government is NOT the answer. Obama has certainly proved that!

Paul:

No, WEAC can't prevent districts from bidding out, but they can refuse to come to an agreement on contract terms until the district "chooses" to use WEAC Trust...

How is this in contradiction to saying that there isn't a rule?

...and it certainly seems to be one heck of a coincidence that so many schools are now looking at alternatives to WEAC trust to provide their health insurance. Are you sure that Walker's collective bargaining changes had nothing to do with it?

Paul, boy did you rise to the bait !!
I knew I could trip your trigger !!!

Paul, aren't you a middle school teacher? First, thank you for your service, truly . But as a teacher and I assume part of the teachers union, doesn't that put a bias light on all your comments?

Paul:

MPS doesn't use WEA Trust because they self insure. Most smaller districts used WEA trust, and now that Walker's bill passed into law those districts are now looking at alternative health insurance providers. Even though WEA couldn't "force" a school to use their coverage, they do seem to have been "chosen" pretty often. The fact that schools are looking at alternative plans after Walker's BRB passed still seems to indicate that schools really didn't have the choice you claim they did for choosing a health insurance provider...

BTW--I am the parent of two school age children. I feel represented quite well by Darling. I much prefer her to "Pants on Fire" Pasch...

I think some people are confusing being "represented" with having everything their way. I didn't vote for Obama, I agree with almost nothing the guy has done or proposes to do, yet he's the President and as such he "represents" me in as much as the majority of people who voted in the last election put him in office. I'm not certain where this idea came from that if you can't personally speak to an elected official on your own schedule, in the manner you see fit (or even at all) or if they don't support what you believe in, they don't "represent" you and, as such, because you view your interests as paramount to those of anybody else (i.e., the majority that voted the person you don't feel "represents" you into office), you should get your way and out they must go. Now, I've got an idea where that came from, but it's just a theory....

They go to Atwater.

...a quick walk through the Wisconsin Politifact page shows no 'pants on fire' for Darling.

Pasch has one, and the falsehood that she opens this article with isn't even on there yet.

By my count, Darling has 1 mostly true, 1 half true, 1 false and 1 flipflop. Pasch has 1 mostly true, 1 pants on fire (and a second pants on fire coming soon).

Is the 'big money' from unions that Pasch is counting on any better than the 'big money' from Club for Growth, Rove, Koch brothers, et al.?

I'm still waiting for Pasch to respond to the e-mails I have sent her. She must be in hiding...

Sorry Paul, not buying it. Everybody knew what Walker was about when he was elected. The gory details, which frankly I find refreshing and positive, are never known. Unless you're going to suggest that everybody knew prior to Obama's election that he'd be screwing up the used car market (to the disadvantage of the disadvantaged, btw) and taking over GM - just to name two unannounced nuances.

Of course if you're blinded by your own self-interest, you'll not see be able to see that.

Paul, you are incorrect. I have sent e-mails to Pasch. Pasch has not responded to any of them to date. I guess she only replies to those who pledge their support rather than those asking about her positions on specific issues or asking for clarifications of statements she had made.

Paul, another example:

Pasch showed up in our neighborhood last year during the floods when the local media were covering our block, offering to be of assistance if anyone needed it in the coming days. The folks I talked to who actually attempted to contact her, after all the photo ops had passed, were given the runaround.

Frankly, nobody that I talked to was outraged to the point of calling for her head because, as people spending most of their time in the real world and not in the rarified air of public employment, they're pretty much accustomed to the fact that most politicians, regardless of party affiliation, are full of it.

I was polite and respectful.

Vote Sandy Pasch. Let's win the second American revolution against an aristocracy.

Paul,

No, I'm not a used car salesman, although I'll say frankly I have more respect for people that hustle on their own than those who hide behind a union. But I digress.

The point is, Paul, that despite Obama not stating he was going to do those things and a certain number of folks who felt they were mislead by what he DID say, no recall effort has been mounted by the Republican opposition. In fact, there's never been a series of recalls like what we're seeing now (hence being termed "unprecedented"). Do you know why that is Paul? Actually, I know you do. If you were honest (rather than just playing the part of union tool), you'd admit it.

As for the effects of Walker's "bomb", you don't know what they'll be, just as those who perhaps thought the sky was falling when Obama commandeered GM didn't really know what the effects of that would be. All you can do is speculate and, in nobody's interest but your own, blow everything out of proportion in an attempt to undo the last election, where your side lost.

Ah...look at them....reduced to the equivalent of lawn signs and vapid mailers...

Not quite like the mailers--they forgot to list Sandy's "platform" that she puts on all her stuff:

"Sandy and her husband have lived in Whitefish Bay for 25 years, where they raised three children. A practicing nurse since 1976, and an assistant professor of nursing at Columbia College of Nursing for 15 years, Sandy taught students in the fields of mental health, community health, and ethics. A relative newcomer to the State Assembly, Sandy has focused on strengthening education, improving health care and creating jobs during her three years as a state representative."

CD, that must be the long version. I got the two versions of essentially the same mailbox stuffer, designed to be readable by MPS students today. 5 bullet-pointed 4 word phrases, a reminder to vote on the 12th, and lots of pictures. Sponsored by Planned Parenthood, both of them.

Hardly, Paul. How about you? I'd say that when you're reduced to 3 word pleas to vote for a candidate and some C&P boilerplate nonsense, you've lost yours.

Keep it up. I got all night.

Paul,

How do you know she wouldn't have said it in public? How do you purport to know much of anything, frankly? All I've seen from you here is the same boilerplate C&P nonsense that a dozen before you have posted.

Here's your logic pattern on this one: Darling said this at a fundraiser. You "doubt" she'd say it in public. Therefore, she's a hypocrite.

I sincerely hope you're really not a teacher. If you are, we're in bigger trouble than I suspected and it points directly to the need for the capability, sans collective bargaining limitations, to pick and choose based on ability as opposed to having to accept whatever manages to cool it's heels longest in the teacher's lounge.

Paul,

You really ought to consider a summer refresher course in reading comprehension.

That you don't understand one of the side-effects of the "Cash for Clunkers" program as it relates to the ability of people with limited means to obtain wheels I put down to the fact that you probably rarely venture into "those" neighborhoods, but again, that's an aside.

As I pointed out above, it goes to the fact that, even though he didn't announce that he was going to balls up the used car market to the extent that it hurt some of the underprivileged or that he was going to take over GM, nobody on the right got their undies SO in a bundle that they started a massive recall campaign.

On the other hand, because Scott Walker didn't disclose every single detail of his plan prior to the election (even though NONE of it should have come as a surprise to anyone), your side - the one that just CAN'T stand ever not having it's way 100% - went into whiney-baby overdrive, stormed Madison while the elected versions of yourselves bailed out to the flatlands. And then, when your massive temper tantrum STILL didn't result in getting your way, you embarked on, again, an unprecedented campaign of recalls.

It's the contrast Paul. If you don't understand the word, look it up. It's the contrast in the way one side acts when it's out of office for awhile, versus the unwillingness of the other to accept defeat in the time tested fashion - wait 'til the next election cycle.

Honestly Paul, if you call that deductive reasoning, you're hopeless.

Why hasn't she said any number of things she might have said in private venues, her office, to herself while sitting on the potty, etc. in public? Why stop at that statement? Why limit your rhetorical curiosity to just THAT statement Paul.

You could be missing something really big, instead of the fact that as a Republican at a Republican fundraiser she said something in support of a Republican.

I'll bet that stuff never happens at Democratic fundraisers...oh...wait a minute...I've actually been at a couple of those in my years and you wouldn't believe it but THEY SAID STUFF IN SUPPORT OF DEMOCRATS THAT THEY NEVER SAID IN PUBLIC!!!

Sure I do Paul. You're trotting out the talking points like dozens before you and you're trying to make a case that she's changed and no longer "represents" her constituents and that, therefore, she's got to go. The trouble is I'm one of her constituents, too, I support what she's doing. I don't buy the "sky is falling" crapola you and your cohorts keep harping on. Our schools aren't being gutted, the budget is not being balanced on the backs of those who can least afford it anymore than it ever is, and it's not the end of the free world as we know it.

That's all just silly talk from a bunch of folks who've been insulated from the economic realities of life in the real world for a long, long time and who think that because they racked up a bunch of bills going to school so they could enter a profession they believed wasn't paying them enough in the first place, they're entitled to remain unaffected by it.

Honestly Paul, did you vote for Alberta Darling in the last election? And I do mean honestly. Don't use this as an open to try and prove a point using more nonsense.

Thanks for the offer Paul. I quit years ago. But Irish slur duly noted on the part of one of our state's enlightened educators. Doing your profession proud there, Homeslice.

Hey Bob: been following your comments. Got to commend you for your perseverance. You bring up some valid points. However, based on all your responses I would recommend that you look at the facts with respect to what Walker has done and how Darling has gone along with it. I voted for Darling but now I have voter remorse. Did you look at the headlines today regarding the bus system cuts? Not sure all your statements hold water based on the hard facts. I will be voting for Sandy this time around. I am very troubled by where this state is going with Walker and Darling.

I guess I don't see the bus cuts as a necessarily bad thing. Ridership is at an all time low, and I see buses running empty quite often--they probably could eliminate some routes and cut costs. Such a 'draconian' measure could effect tens of people--I see why it would cause you to vote for Pasch...

@Bob McBride III...This recall is all Republicans moving too fast pushing for a dramatic change. You constantly site the demonstrations in Madison as proof of union control and maneuvering to shut down the government. From my perspective it was only an action equal to intensity to the action taken by the Governor and the Republican controlled legislature. The lack of the Governor's transparency concerning his sweeping changes led to his election. The strong Republican majority in the legislature was the icing on the cake. As I have written before; slowing and stopping Walker's agenda is the goal of the recall. If the senate can be rested away from Republican control, then additional mischief from Walker will be blocked. The 2012 election will finally decide the course of the state when all of the assembly stands for election and part of the Senate. Recall seems reasonable given the power division as it now stands.

I guess that "Change" thing is only good when Obama does it?

Hi CowDung: nice to meet you. just wondering if you read the article. As a strong advocate for the poor,jobless and disabled I have serious reservations about these cuts. I also ride the bus to Summerfest along with thousands of other riders who enjoy this service. I guess if you never use the bus I can understand your perspective. I wonder what Darling thinks about this? Has she responded to these cuts. Just curious.

Yes, I read the article.

I guess we will see what really happens come Summerfest time next year. I'm thinking that a lot of the claims being made in the article are more of the same 'gloom and doom' projections that tend to follow when something is cut. Funny how reality never seems to match those projections...

Sorry Lyle, this whole thing is about union power. The unions have the most to lose from this - their stranglehold on public employee contracts. Every action has been right out of the union playbook from the get go.. They're afraid it's going to work and from what's been demonstrated in some communities (those who didn't succumb to pressure to lock in or extend a contract prior to the bill going into effect) it already has.

My point, as it always has been and continues to be, is that there's nothing that can't be reversed should it be found not to work, via the next legitimate election cycle. Your side (the side of the unions) won't put up with that, even though that's the way we've been doing things for years and years, through administration after administration. You're attempting to sell this "need" for recalls and all the other nonsense your side has engaged in, based on a lot of hyperbole and overblown projection.

It's more important to your side that you do everything within your power, including misleading people to the extent that you can, to overturn the last election than it is to do what we've been doing for years. Respecting the outcome of an election and the votes of those who voted in it.

Bob,

I've looked at what Walker has done. I've looked at what Darling has done>

I'm good with it overall.

As for the bus situation, let's see if you can figure out why Abele selected the ones he did for elimination.

Lyle: Although I voted for Walker and Darling I am feeling extreme voter remorse. I especially feel duped by Walker. I honestly thought he would be able to use the high speed train funds for roads but that got shot down and then to lose the money for the Chicago- Milwaukee run. I now see him a political sociopath. As a nonunion worker and moderate conservative, I was very supportive of the demonstrations in Madison. Our founding fathers and Fighting Bob L would be proud. Godspeed in the recalls. It's time to bring down this fascist.

Lyle,

So you're saying that unless dues are mandatory, the unions will lose the majority of their members, even though they can still be used to negotiate wage issues? I guess that doesn't say much for unions, does it? Unless people can be forced to join unions, they won't. Darnnit!

Thanks for at least acknowledging that it's absolutely imperative to their survival that they be able to make membership mandatory. And here I thought all along it was that good old union solidarity.

As for stripping the ability to contribute, I could make the same argument about your side as regards your "tax the rich, tax and regulate corporations" mantra.

Let's cut the crap, Lyle. Stop blaming money, the Kochs , Karl Rove, the Boogie Man or any other supposedly nefarious force out there working behind the scenes. It's getting to be a bit too much "birther", really.

We had an election. Your side lost. You're unwilling to wait until the next one because you know darn well that what Walker's proposing, particularly as it relates to our educational system is going to work. And that scares the living you-know-what out of you.

Lyle, you're too smart to really be going with the row you're hoeing here and if this is the best you've got, then there's nothing much of substance at all.

Oh, and saw your post about going down the same road again. Why it never made it here is a mystery, but, really, it's more of a quarter mile oval, isn't it?

@Bib McBride II...I'm not blaming money, the Kochs, Karl Rove or any other nefarious force. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I have to admit that the Republicans have done a good job of putting it all together and catching my side with our pants down. The issue of mandatory dues is born out by Indiana's public unions, losing 90% of their membership after the Governor eliminated collective bargaining. I predict it will be true here also. Anyway to the issue of the recall elections; if we are to go by the recent track record of the Dems. you guys don't have anything to worry about; we haven't won a single battle since the November election. You can't blame us for wanting to put a stopper in the Walker bottle if we can. To you it may seem irrational, which it is; but, that's politics. Will we all survive; oh yeah, but we don't have to be happy with our performance. I just worry that Walker and company will take us so far down the libertarian road that it will take decades to bring everything back into balance.

Pau...er..Bob, nice try.

Can anyone tell me where I can pick up a couple of Pasch signs? I need a rather large one.

Lyle,

Your side was caught with its pants down not because of any particularly skillful maneuvering on the part of the Republicans. If ever there was a time when there was a lack of political gamemasters in general, this is that time.

What got you guys was the fog of the buzz from 2008. You took way too seriously your victory in that year. Think about it. You beat John McCain and Sarah Palin after 2 W terms. You could have darn near run your mascot, a donkey, and won.

Instead, you let yourselves believe that you'd found a new kind of leader and believed your own hype to such a degree that it led to your downfall in two short years.

There's your lesson. Not that the Republicans outsmarted you. You outsmarted yourselves. Which, frankly, probably explains the absolutely outrageous reaction when it happened and the absolute need on your side's part for a redo.

So no, I don't worry, but I don't underestimate the determination and drive that can result from self loathing either.

Got the quarter mile to yourself now. Have at it.

I'm new to this blogging and find this comment section quite interesting although eye opening so far. i just read Bob's and Lyle's take on Bob II. I have to agree with Bob in that his rhetoric is caustic in nature. He does use his words to bully as Bob said. But on the other hand Lyle is correct. He is very good at getting his point across albeit missing some common courtesy. So Lyle, how would you classify Bob II. He seems to attack people rather than communicate with them. Would hate to meet him in a bar with his concealed weapon and start talking politics.

Excellent points Lyle. It's interesting how different your style of communication is so much different from Bob II's. It seems no matter how courteous you are he just slams you with his rhetoric. I was a conservative but never tongue lashed people like he does. Has Bob II shown any sympathy for the liberals financially affected by Walker and Darling's actions? I am just so shocked at what Walker did. As a moderate conservative who associates with many of Bob II's kind, Walker and Darling's actions have turned even those most ardent conservatives to reflect on who they will vote for. Some are asking for recall Walker signs. It's just a tragedy Lyle.

Hey Bob II - I found your comments regarding the bus route cuts interesting. What cuts would you suggest. Just curious.

An intellectual conservative - that's interesting. With respect to the recalls though, if they fail he will rub it in every liberals face with an intellectual twist to it. If this is how the intellectual conservatives approach things, how do the white trash gun toting conservatives approach things?

@Bob...The people you describe will drive you off the site for a period of time until they are spent. There comments are intolerable.

This Article is completely False. There's not one ounce of truth in it. The Person who wrote it, should be brought up on False Journalism Charges. Or Slander. That is ,If the Person who Wrote it and took the bribe to write it, Would have Signed their name to the article. Wow , The Patch is now just another Lying left wing Propaganda Site. Wont be back here. It's amazing how stupid these writers are.

Can a liberal be as ugly as a conservative? Let me try: you folks are dimwitted, extreme ideological (not to mention scatological) scum. You have no ability to understand the damage your unfaltering faith-based belief system is doing to the people of the country. You blame the wrong people. You are blind to the obvious. There is no arguing with you because, simply put, you are too stupid to have an intelligent conversation with. You are like the old woman who was my neighbor in Germany two decades ago, who, despite everyone else's take on it, couldn't be talked out of believing that the 3rd Reich was good. She was completely brainwashed, and could never take on a valuable thought again.

Vote Pasch tomorrow! Don't let Darling screw us again.

Yeah John- decided as a moderate conservative that the right in Wisconsin have sold their souls to the tea party and right wing religious zealots. Look at Bachman! Is that the best the right has? God help us all. I finally took the leap today and went canvassing for Pasch. I met so many very sensible people who are calm and collected yet they know through lengthy discussions with them that Walker's agenda is not the Wisconsin way of doing things. They are even more concerned about Darling and her extreme voting record. Many students I encountered can't wait to recall Walker and Darling. Anyway, I saw an incredible amount of Pasch and recall Walker signs. I can see why the republicans are redistricting as they are. They don't want to compete. They seem really scared to resort to such immature antics. They simply have too much power and need to be put in check. I'm voting for Pasch.