Bren:

Did you ever consider that your Republican Korean war vet father rejects the idea because it just isn't true?

Cow, we know that it is true. Do the research.

Bren's father sounds like an intelligent and respectful man, I bet he is second guessing the adoption now.

Bren:

Are you claiming that Politifact's 'Lie of the Year' is really true?

Crickets from Bren. Typical libtard. No response when asked for the truth, facts, or sense.

@Bren -

So, attempting to limit benefits to what one actually pays into the system so that they don't go bust is somehow attempting to 'destabilize' your precious socialist programs?

Is Bren for real?

Bren
The greatest generation sacrificed for their country. Maybe they see that all these entitlements are bankrupting the country, including their grand kids.

That is why they support romney. You'd rather be dumb and ignorant, though, and disregard them as foolish.

We are witnessing another blue fister lose their mind. Ease up guys. It must be hard to realize that everything you believe in is proven wrong year after year. Obama may have done all of us a big favor by finally proving liberalism a gigantic failure of ideas.

These blue fisters put so much effort into the recall and they lost, big time. That must sting, a lot. Now they are witnessing their #1 lose in reelection. Turn the constant campaign into school yard name calling and flat out lies.

So ease up, I really don't want to see Bren rioting in the streets come November.

Ease up guys.
Maybe Bren has had her eyes open due to your great comments.
Maybe Bren has started her own research.
Maybe Bren has realized the Liberal research isn't all there.
Maybe Bren has started to realize the Leftist agenda is just lie after spin after lie.
Maybe Bren is starting to understand there are more important issues than Big Bird or binders full of women in this election.
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Nah. Bren just hasn't found a good response on DailyKOS or HuffPost yet.

That is soooo funny Bren. Lyle is the biggest offender of spreading globalism. And Bren, I want provided proof of lies perpetrated by the right. I see Obama as the panderer. After all, how many lies has he spread about Benghazi. How many campaign promises has he broken.

How about the truth Bren. The Greatest Generation sees Obama as a complete failure to America and are voting for Mitt based on that and nothing else?

How many times does the information have to be posted? I and others have sourced information numerous times. There's no point scurrying around re-posting sources that won't be read or understood.

Perhaps if you posted information from reliable sources rather then lefty propaganda blogs, it would be more likely read, understood and accepted...

Gives us something new Bren. We've already proved you wrong on all your MSNBC Daily Kos references.

Please post some detailed proof about Romney's quest to destabilize the SS and Medicare programs...

I don't use "lefty blogs" as my sources of information. I may source one that contains legitimate documentation (i.e. reputable data/news sources) on occasion but that is not my preference.

Interesting that individuals who post among the most reactive, content-free posts here on Patch have the *effrontery* to challenge me. Toujours l'audace! ; )

Now go check my comment history here or do some independent research and refute my views in a scholarly way. ; )

That's crap, Bren. If you posted the proof previously, you likely have the bookmarks available to post them again. The only articles I can find that make the claims you have made are democrat talking points sites.

Please post something credible that documents Romney's quest to destabilize the Social Security and Medicare programs.

Maybe you will hear something on the Ed Show tonight Bren that you can use as a talking point here tomorrow.

@CowDung....My point was that Jason was taking on the wrong group with the wrong argument.

Jason's opinions are like having mittens in hell, they are off way more than they are on.

OK, they are never on.

what else would you expect from a weak effeminate lib like Jason? We all know his wife is a teacher, guess that explains the me me me temper tantrums he throws.

Ignore who?

To harken back the kitchen table metaphor:

If one of the folks around the table is picking their nose and flicking boogers in all directions, eventually someone's going to have to jump in and attempt to put a stop to it. It gets pretty hard to ignore after awhile.

Considering Jason's recent articles, I think that 'flinging poop' would be more appropriate...

Just like a monkey at the zoo.

Yes, Lyle, would someone please point out to the politicians that the Boomers are a passing phenomenon and that the system need not be altered forever? We'll most of us be gone in 40 years.

And would someone point out to the GenX and Y-ers that we supported their grandparents and parents -- the Greatest Generation -- without much complaining?

Only to those who stereotype people according to generation, which seems to be more of a liberal/leftist collectivist kind of ideology as opposed to a conservative individualist kind of ideology.

Once again showing how the left is WRONG!

Good one, Hoffa -- decry those who stereotype by generation and then proceed to stereotyping by political persuasion. LOL

Its all about the math:

If in fact the boomers are only a temporary phenomenon, as far as the costs of entitlements are concerned, the actuarial tables would be telling us that we would return to the rates for Social Security similar to those that existed pre-baby boom on inflation adjusted dollars basis.

That would be about 6.2% on the first $35,000.00 of earnings, rather than the current 12.6% on the first $106,000.00 One would think the folks that don't like the Ryan plan would be telling us that our kids will get to pay about 1/6th of what we are now paying;no reason to mess with Social Security!!

@Jay Sykes-- That is one thing I've noticed about the Ryan plan for Social Security -- there is no mention of lowering the FICA taxes, which generated surpluses every single year up until now. So where is that money going to go once the Boomer ox has moved through the belly of the snake?

Good question Randy. Unfortunately, all the current crop of Ryan critics offer is the Chicken Little analysis. I wish we could get some good counter proposals, with some numbers, on the table.

Here's a proposal - treat people like adults, instead of like little children, and end SS all together! Or at least make it an opt-in non-compulsory program.

I haven't "chimed in" once in this debate because I have been WORKING my SECOND job this entire weekend, because contrary to popular belief, I am a "maker" and not a "taker". Many fellow parents in Greendale can contest to this fact. They know that I missed a popular Halloween party Saturday night because I was at job no.2 putting $ away for my kids' college fund. And no, you people will not get to see my in my much-talked about, too tight, Luigi costume, though I know Mr. "Oak Creek Resident" has been daydreaming about it for days now.

So hope and change is working well for you Jason?

Poor Jason, has to work just like his wifey. What's wrong jason, pissed that the governor leveled the playing field, and that you can't ride your wife's coattails anymore?

Wasn't it Tom Brokaw who came up with the designation?

Regardless, the point was that they were disappearing, that they were unique in that most of them went through the depression, WWII and it's aftermath and helped make the country the economic super power it became - all without a lot of complaining or tooting of their own horns or self-serving introspection. In a way, it's a shame there was a decision to celebrate them because, as can be seen in the article this one is a response to and some of the comments attached to both, it's being turned around on them as if they were the ones responsible for the designation by those who, apparently, can't stand having the accomplishments of others recognized w/o theirs being acknowledged as well.

I suppose the fact that we have adult babies who think along those lines is, in part, their fault as well for having put their kids' and grandkids' interests ahead of their own. And now, when those still living are in their declining years, some of the truly ungrateful amongst us still expect them to continue to put their own interests on the back burner in deference to the concerns of younger generations.

Dave, I think you're getting wrapped up in the moniker given that generation by Brokaw. It's not one they chose for themselves. Nobody's saying other generations didn't have their own trials and tribulations, or make great contributions to this nation. Just because some folks have elected to honor this generation as the slip into extinction doesn't mean all other generations are being dissed at their expense. Try to think of it as what it's intended to be, not some slight against others.

This whole discussion came up in response to Jason's article, where he expressed displeasure in learning that his grandparents intended to vote for Romney. His take was this was selfish on their part, because based on his interpretation of Ryan's plan for the future, his generation will get the short shrift when it comes to programs like Medicare and Social Security. While grudgingly acknowledging that his grandparents generation did make some sacrifices for his generation (in his case he was brought up by his grandparents and has related a story in the past about granddad buying him a car, for instance), he seems to think that his concerns and his interpretation of the future, should Romney be elected, should drive his grandparents' decision when they hit the voting booth for the presidential election.

@Bob McBride -- I had to go back and search Jason's original blog post to check. Could you please quote to me where he said he had learned his grandparents planned to vote for Romney/Ryan? I must be skimming over it, because I couldn't find it.

Sorry, should have said grandparent's generation, not specifically his grandparents.

About the NDAA that President Obama signed -- who drafted the provisions in the bill that was set before him? And what are Governor Romney's views on those same policies? Does he plan to repeal?

@J.B. Schmidt....What is this downfall of American society that you are speaking of? How and what have the liberals done? How have you been personally negatively impacted by liberalism? Be specific please.

@Lyle
Personally affected by liberalism? Ok - destruction of inner city families, crime rates, bad economy, i mean really Lyle!

@Lyle
OCR did a good job; but I would like to reinforce that with trillion dollar lack of budget deficits, welfare systems that exist on the back of businesses, the debacle we call public education and 4 dead in Libya.

@Randy
Your questions would be relevant if the people in the video weren't clinging to Obama out of blind faith.

@oak creek resident & J.B. Schmidt....Both of you never listed how liberals have personally negatively impacted you. You both are spewing right wing ideological talking points and not putting anything into a personal nature.

To place the blame on one group or another is just plain stupid. Take the partisan blinders off and do take the time to do some non partisan research. For the most part, conservatives have played a much more powerful role in setting agendas since the election of Reagan. It seems to me that the conservatives have had their shot and it hasn't worked out as promised. Everything is interconnected and when businesses started outsourcing and offshoring, it threw many previously gainfully employed people onto the government system in the role of a safety net. Who do we blame for the loss of jobs which resulted in greater use of government? This is just one example out of many. Again what has the liberals done that personally affects you.

Liberals and RINOs personally and negatively effected Hoffa by taxing Hoffa and his business more than necessary, running up huge debts and deficits, keeping interest rates artificially low, and printing excessive sums of money thereby decreasing the value/purchasing power of our currency.

Lyle- Why don't you try to be specific of how conservatives and Republicans are responsible?

From personal experience, I have seen how and why jobs have been outsourced, and none of it has to do with Republican or conservative agendas. From my personal perspective and my father's, we bothed worked at a local factory. My father started at the bottom in 1951 and was a the national treasurer for the United Steelworkers Union and a union member for the first 21 years, and in management for the next 23 years, retiring in 1995. I started in 1986 as a machinist and wand was a shop steward for 4 of the 8 years I was in the union, and 5 years in management.

The strength of unions, supported by the Democrats, grew from the 50's until the early 80's. A strength that would become a detriment to companies in that labor costs took away from the quality of products we produced. Money that previously been spent on things like research and development, engineering advancements, sales departments and equipment upgrades and purchases, was being eaten up on salaries and benefits. Guys who once were paid minimum wage to sweep the floor, were making $45k with about 20k in benefits. Companies we supplied like Caterpillar, were experiencing the same labor increases. They could no longer afford our products and foreign competitors were making these products for far less, so companies like CAT were purchasing them from overseas. Cont...

Lyle- cont... Companies like CAT and ours, had to figure out a way to continue to to make profits in order to keep capital investments from stockholders. Companies like the one I worked for, started to look towards automation to offset the labor and production costs. This resulted in a number of lay-offs that kept the business afloat for a number of years, however, wages and benefits kept rising and profits were down, drawing less from investors.

This pattern repeated itself over and over. Then came the proposal for cutbacks on benefits and salaries and the unions said no. They went out on strike and the company was sold. A company like Bain came in and automated to a point where they could produce as much product at an affordable price and saved the company from dissolving. This once large, good paying company that had at its peak 600 employees, is now 100 and non-unionized. The pay and benefits are still above average, but 500 fewer jobs are lost forever.

But it wasn't the unions alone. Energy policies that taxed businesses based on the useage was a new tax at the time that was just another expense companies had to adjust for. In our case, if you produced your own energy, you weren't subject to the excessive energy tax. That became a large initial expenditure but in the long run, made the the company sustainable.

The Clean Air Act, which was a needed policy in the 1970's, became an expense as more and more regulations were implemented. cont...

@Lyle
To piggy back on Hoffa's statement, because of the liberal housing act passed by Carter and subsequent amendments that have their core in a liberal ideology, my housing price crashed. Because of the liberal quasi-governmental Frannie and Freddy interference in the market I was unable to refi my house at the rates given to others. Hence for a couple years, I was paying more in a house payment then I needed to because of the liberal policy that started with Carter and perpetrated by liberal desires.

The currently stagnated economy and government uncertainty over the last four years has kept some investments flat and unusable. Which is money I would like to use to improve my house and add back into the economy.

Do to the liberal policy of spending money we don't have, printing money and unwillingness to find ways to decrease energy cost of food for my family has increased.

As I see it, liberal policies of government spending and government intervention have taken the America of greatness that led the world and turned it into the America of mediocrity (or Europe II). Moving 'forward' as the president wants to point out will not change that and GDP declining under his administration is proof.

Lyle- cont... Eventually, the CAA started monitoring everything from pollutants being emitted to air quality in the bathrooms. Started as good, but then became too big and created more ways to justify their existense.

There are many more, but these three are the biggest factor. Unions, which had a usefulness became greedy, and government regulatory agencies needed to keep adding to their plate so they could continue.

Other countries, especially those like Mexico and China, don't have unions and not many regulations. While most of the polices we have here have had some pretty good outcomes, but have had some dire consequences overseas.

Now before you jump on things like the CEO's were greedy and companies like Bain lost 500 jobs, think again. This company, the CEO and management took cuts to keep the company afloat. 100 jobs were saved that would have otherwise been lost. But, many companies weren't able to keep afloat, or outsourced jobs to Mexico and China.

the bottomline is it is not necessarily CEO's and management that are the fat cats. It is people like you and me who invested in IRA's and 401k's and wanted to see large gains personally. You see the investments you make, are managed by someone who is invested in these companies and so we all demand these companies to be profitable.

So check your investments and you will see some of the very compaies you despise turn up on your balance sheet.

@Brian Dey...The spiral of wages and prices began for a number of reasons and can't be laid at the feet of the liberals. The problems began under Nixon and then Ford, not exactly liberals. There were a number of separate incidences; the 1971 Wage and Price Freeze, the transfer from the gold standard, a refusal by the Federal Reserve to increase the prime interest rate from 6.0% to 6.25%, and the first OPEC Oil Embargo. The unions were scapegoated as the variable that kicked off the wage/price spiral that resulted in stagnation.

The reality about business manufacturing was at the time; that it was used to cheap energy prices, captured non competitive markets, outdated product designs, inflated prices and poor quality. Manufacturing got caught with their pants down and foreign manufacturers took advantage of the opportunity. How are the liberals' responsible for that?

Business started moving manufacturing offshore as early as the 1960s. G.E. was the first to move manufacturing the production of wiring devices offshore and initially it was to Puerto Rico. The cascade of offshoring didn't gain momentum until Reagan was President. Companies were devalued and merger mania started. Two reasons why companies began manufacturing offshore; 1) lower labor and energy costs, 2) manufacture locally to gain entrance into previously closed markets and reduce logistics costs. (continued)

@Brian Dey....(continued) Automation was widely used by our foreign competitors, with the Japanese leading the way. It was also the Japanese who led the way with modern logistics chains.All had enormous impacts on U.S. manufacturing and the transfer of manufacturing from labor intensive to automated. These were all business decisions and had very little with local labor costs and more to do with outdated manufacturing processes. This is a process that has been going on during the entire Industrial Age.

The environmental and safety impacts of the old manufacturing has led to creating regulations to control negative impacts. I know of manufacturing sites all over S.E. Wisconsin that are permanently polluted and will never be able to be used again. You and others have too narrow a view and want to place blame away from where it belongs.

Lyle- See, Lyle, while you are looking to effects, I have explained causes. For example, using your "...outdated product designs, inflated prices and poor quality", the cause was much higher labor costs due to over-inflated wages and the rising costs in pensions and health insurance.

The reality is, and you must have lived through and involved in these business decisions, is that as long as these conditions were in place, and the Democratic party continued to court the favor of the union vote, yes it is these policies that directly effected the outcomes we have seen in the past 20 years.

I will use the shop sweeper as an example. In 1965, the pay was $2.70 per hour (at the time not a bad wage) but by 1985, that same job paid $29.00 per hour. This was far better than the 20 yr. inflation rate. Now because the lowest guy in the shop was making $29 p/hr, what do you think happened to the skilled workers' wage? And the effect carried over to management and officers. Japan and others, including Germany developed automation that reuired less of a labor force that was more accurate and less subject to human error. Companies here started to purchase automation because it was cost effective , more productive and allowed for better quallity. Why, because most large companies need to raise working capital through stock sales, and you can't sell stocks without profit.. It may be something else in books, but that mine is from experience.

It should also be worth looking at why the US lagged so far behind the rest of the world in making the move toward automation.

Was it company loyalty to the workers and a reluctance to replace them with automation? Was it the union working to protect jobs that caused the delays?

Either way, once US manufacturers did finally make the move, the Japanese had already taken quite a bit of the market share, and many manufacturing jobs ended up being lost...

@Brian Dey....I am amazed that you have reversed cause and effect relationships. At the basis of all that has occurred is the fact that American manufacturing "screwed the pooch". They let foreign competitors out innovate them. Since when did labor design, distribute and sell the products? Your position is so uniformed and biased that I have a hard time counting your version of the history that has led to the economic conditions over the last 35 years. This is not a conservative or liberal thing, it is a business failure thing. Too many taking short term profits against long term sustainability. BTW, this is the school of thought of Mitt Romney.

@CowDung....You forgot the last alternative; business stopped making capital investment and R&D. They were clipping coupons while the foreign competition was moving ahead. Putting profits ahead of sustainability is what buried American manufacturing.

What profits? Wasn't the time period in question a period of big losses for all the Big Three? Higher labor costs, and trying to comply with the new CAFE requirements don't sound very much like they were sitting back counting their profits while Toyota the rest of the world passed them by...

@CowDung...The CAFE standards was not passed by Congress until 1975. By then more fuel efficient cars were making significant inroads into the market. But it wasn't only car and truck manufacturing; it was the majority of American manufacturing. At the end of the 1970s I started in the manufacturing world working for a division of a company selling electrical equipment. We were selling many products that were first designed in the 1930s and 1940s. The Europeans and Japanese ended up eating our lunch. My management was making so much money off the old products and they were against product and manufacturing innovation that they wouldn't change. Within 6 years they were bought out twice and then shut down by selling off profitable divisions. This was occurring everywhere and in every industry. I know, I was there.

Fair enough--I was still in gradeschool in 1975. I was thinking in terms of the automotive industry in the 1980s time period when it seemed that Japanese imports became a common alternative to the crappy American made cars.

Lyle, Lyle, Lyle. Why did companies stop R & D? Becaue money they spent on it, was now being eaten up by salaries and benefits, cased by the unions right to strike and shut production down...

Please, and I mean this with all due respect. Get your head out of the college books and think practically. Your argument makes absolutely no sense from someone who was on the frontline while you were reading about it in some college classroom.

Doesn't the ROI go up(read:cash cow) if a company is not re-investing in product development?

Can we see an correlating increase in the ROI for the S&P 500 over the time period 1950 to 1975, when it is claimed that R&D significantly decreased?

AMC had a stable full of small, fuel sipping cars when the energy crisis hit. They continued their path into oblivion. I think the problem was more that American car makers were terrible at producing a quality product at an attractive price point. In America, unlike Europe, 'small car' = 'low price' point.

@Brian Dey...I don't know who you have been dealing with but I worked for and owned engineered product companies. Their lifeblood is R & D. Labor was never the primary consideration in making decisions on R & D. I had positions where I was a product manager and labor was part of the metric, but often it came down to additional investment in capital equipment and resource allocation. Now I know why you are so anti-labor and blame them for everything. You're not the first ex union member who went to the other side and reacted with such hostility to their former union brothers and sisters.There is more to the world than that what you have personally experienced.

Lyle- Well Lyle, let me put it into perspective for you. Combined experience of my father and I was nearly 50 yrs as in heavy manufacturing of forged steel parts for companies that included General Motors, Caterpillar, John Deere, Massey-Fergusen, Dana Corp., Jacobson, Falk and Bucyrus Erie. My father was Vice President of Manufacturing and Plant Manager for 16 yrs and I served as plant manager for 4 yrs. 20 yrs combined experience in management and executive management experience.

R & D, labor costs and implementing government regulations were major parts of our job. Negotiating contracts was another key element of our jobs. But most of all quality assurance to maintain preferred provider status was the most valued part of our positions. VP of mfg. had direct control over all operations in the manufacturing process.

Just as in the service company I founded and have presided over the past 13 yrs, you have certain costs associated with either manufacturing or service that are divided into certain areas. There is only one finite pie based on sales and investors each fiscal year. How you divide up those expenses into pie slices can make or break your company. There are certain items described as fixed, and certain items defined as variable. Fixed would include salaries and wages, taxes, utilities, Variable include such items as fringe benefits, material costs and maintenance. Cont...

Lyle-cont... As one pie grows, another must scale back. In the company I was employed with, the demand for new products was never a priority. The demand to keep the costs competitive and maintain the highest of quality was our lifeblood.

Because it was a union shop, the union preferred that job postings were posted daily and seniority was the rule. Depending on the part made and the piecework price for that part, the senior guys always posted for the highest price job, but that did not always mean that the best person to make a certain part was the person making the part. That was one strike I had against the union from a management standpoint. I want the best qualified person, not the most senior person on specific jobs to maintain quality.

Secondly, we had to turn our R & D to efforts of producing more parts than to reduce costs, rather than how we can develop new parts. The price of labor was growing faster than what we could raise our prices. Yes, like I said, there were other factors, but many were variable costs that the company had no control over like the price of steel or the price of energy. One of the only fixed costs we could address was labor costs, yet union demands and several strikes drove up labor costs faster than anything else.

Making more parts with less people was the answer to remaining competitive with Germany and Japan. cont...

Lyle- cont... Thus the need to automate. That is real world Lyle. And we weren't alone, and the trend continues.

However, more factors today play into remaining competitive. Higher corporate taxes plays into this, just like rising labor costs. When the rest of the civilized world has a corporate tax rate of 20 - 25%, and here at home we have an administration that wants to tax at a rate of 4% over the already 35%, there is an incentive for some types of companies to reduce expenditures by 10 - 14% without any further investment by going overseas. It may not be a sole factor, but a factor in decision-making none the less.

I don't hate unions, but I do when they are not not willing to work to improve the overall bottomline of the company. As Chief Negotiator in my last year, the directive of the Board of Directors was to lower labor costs by reducing benefits and lowering salaries or investors were going to pull out. The first thing I told the President was that all non-union employees (officers, secretarial, management and support staff would have to be first to pull the trigger on any cuts to set the tone for negotiations. As the plant was a "Closed Corporation", they never had to open their books to the unions, and at my request, they did so.

When I went back to the unions, they didn't give in and both went out on strike. Investors pulled out and the company was bought out at pennies on the dollar. cont...

lyle- cont... 400 people 500 people lost their good-paying, good benefit jobs because it did not matter to them whether the company made money or not. The non-union employees accepted them because they understood the dire need to stay in existence. They lost their jobs also not because of their decisions, but of the unions.

Yes, I have a real problem with unions that behave like that, and tha is exactly what the public workers did with their failed recall and to this day, they don't care with their continued lawsuits to stop Act 10.

You can stick up for people like that, but it proves to me that unions are no longer a positive for workers, but a negative. Just ask the 500 in my plant that lost their jobs.

@Brian Dey...You're not telling me anything that I don't know. Your business was dependent on your customers. As their business was impacted so was yours and I fully understand that. Whether the unions had pushed for higher wages and benefits or not, automation becomes the answer to increasing production. This has been something many people don't understand. Many of the jobs have been lost to automation,not just offshoring. Even if production returns to our shores, those jobs are gone forever. Our future is the manufacture of next and future generation products.

He was also petty and basically a dictator.

Since WWII we've had "No war, no real poverty, do real disease threats?" I guess you can turn a blind eye to the children living in poverty in the big cities if you live in the burbs and don't have to drive through the hood to get to work, but you cannot ignore Vietnam, Iraq (1&2) and Afghanistan. And lets not ignore the fact that more Americans died in the 911 attacks than at Pearl Harbor. My generation may not be fighting the Nazis and the Japanese in a World War, but we are fighting the Asians in a war over jobs and fighting terrorists in every corner of this big blue world.

@Jason --you forgot that we've had one very significant disease threat, AIDS, which certainly changed our behavior. I'm thinking twice about consenting to a blood transfusion, should I ever need one.

Those wars you mentioned killed people just as dead as WWII. The Boomers fought Vietnam, and they got no gratitude for it.

@Jason Patzfahl...We have been at war almost constantly since WWII. The early 50s we had Korea. From 1962 through 1973 we were at war in S.E. Asia. What we fail to remember is that Korea and Vietnam were wars fought by conscripts. Since military service has become volunteer service, the wars of Gulf I, Afghanistan and Gulf II have been fought by professional all volunteers. The three wars since 1990 have had minimal impact on the citizenry, less than 1% of our population has served in harms way. We have not had to endure the hardships that Korea and Vietnam placed on the population. No price controls, no wage controls, no food rationing, etc. For the most part we have fought the last three ways on a credit card and the U.S. population haven't been subjected to much higher taxes to support the war effort.

I have to honestly ask you, what sacrifices have you personally made? My main issue is that we have grown our debt without asking for sacrifice from our citizens. I remember G.W. Bush claiming that the War in Iraq would be paid for by oil revenues. How'd that work out? I and many others of my generation have been to war and we know exactly what it means to be in harms way. With the close of the Cold War, I expected to receive peace dividends, but alas we are told that Romney/Ryan are planning on spending an addition $2 trillion on the military. If anything, that is a misuse of tax payers monies which could be spent for rebuilding and modernizing our economy.

Nuitari it gets better, read Jason "women's glasses" Putzfull's latest responses

See . . . a short four paragraph rebuttal fits nicely right into YOUR blog posting. While your mention of my blog probably did drive some traffic to my page - who cares! Most people don't know this, but you know that we are not paid a dime for our contributions, though most of the traffic within the Patch is because of our blogs and aggressive arguing amongst ourselves.

In the future, if you must disagree with one of my opinions, please do so directly to my (digital) face on the blog posting to which you so disagree with - But I guess that would take a backbone, wouldn't it . . . which is something that Democrats need to grow, present party (you) included.

@Women's Glasses:

Jason, what's the matter, can't take a little difference in opinion? I am not a fan of Lyle, but I can say that he tries to make points in an acceptable manner. You, on the other hand, basically cut and paste and regurgitate left-wing talking points. It's old, and boring, and pathetic.

As a union brainwashed sheep, you are so used to people falling lock and goose-step in line with one position. Any straying, as Lyle has apparently done, is totally not acceptable, given your response to it. The party of open-mindedness huh?!!? LMAO

OH MY GOD now Jason is arguing about having "backbone"? This, coming from a womenized mr. mom liberal wearing women's glasses?

Call me a caveman, fine, but Jason you have no backbone at all.

Most people don't know this, but you know that we are not paid a dime for our contributions, though most of the traffic within the Patch is because of our blogs and aggressive arguing amongst ourselves.

*******************

Actually, I think most people are aware of that. Which makes your continual whining here all that much more ridiculous. It's not like you have to be here or are dependent on it for your income. Patch is providing a venue for you in which to post pretty much whatever you want and, frankly, they've been pretty lenient with you. If it gets to the point where your stuff, in their opinion, is starting to detract from what they're trying to do here, even free might be too high a price to pay.

If that's not good enough, if you can't handle some criticism and this is turning out to be nothing but a trigger for emotional outbursts and mental angst for you, find something else to do with your time. Believe it or not, Patch will probably survive without you.

@Bob

What else would one expect from a greedy unionized child?

Sorry, Lyle, for doing this in your thread, but I have to say something. OCR, what does a person's choice of eye-wear and the fact he'll help with the housework have to do with manhood? From my observance, men who constantly make remarks like that are insecure about their own sexuality.

Disagree on political philosophy if you must, but knock off the personal stuff. It just makes you look bad.

@Jason Patzfahl...I find that sometimes we must bring the clear light of reason to our positions. We work ourselves into ideological corners and should stop and do a little introspection. I don't think it matters much whether it is posted on the blog piece or in a separate post. I still think you would be more productive in approaching the young citizens whose votes would make a significant impact and not focus on the past.

Oh wow, this from the guy who threatened to call the cops on some poor guy who forged his name in some recall petition?

Yeah a real tough guy aren't ya?

Jason, you can generalize 50% of the population and call them retarded, etc (whatever else you call conservatives), so how is that any better?

And don't blame us that you ride your wife's skirt-tails.

Perhaps all the time and effort spent producing time-consuming videos and writing uncompensated blogs would be better spent actually running for office (stop making excuses) or bettering himself (procure an advanced degree or trade skill) for the benefit of his children and family? If he needs to work two jobs (one as a landscaper) to support his family, why not spend less time partaking in video production and blogging (neither which benefit his family) and instead try better himself in an attempt to procure better, higher-paying employment?

Finally, in addition to all of the hypocrisy and excuses, Jason is merely an attention seeker. If not enough views of his videos have occurred on YouTube, he will post the link in various comments and finally, if that does not work, base a Patch blog around it – all merely seeking attention and comment. The icing on the cake is the aforementioned criticism of Lyle Ruble for not responding to Jason via comment to Jason’s blog.

You cannot reason with the unreasonable. Basically, Jason exhibits all of the traits of an unreasonable person, and is thus not worth of my time. It seems many others, to include those falling along the same partisan line, are beginning to feel the same way.

Good luck to Jason. Five years from now, after a continuation or his pointless, hypocritical attention seeking activities, he will be no better off than he is today. The only benefit will be that any economic disadvantage that results will perhaps provide additional fodder for his further pointless activities. However, he will have to blame only himself.

For all of the time you have spent trying to bully me off of the Patch, you can have written ten editorials, or landscaped your own yard five times over. But your brutish tactics won't work. I won't be bullied around or pushed away. I'm not a typical liberal that backs away from a fight.

And I don't find your arguments very strong when you won't even back them up by posting your comments under an anonymous name. I share anecdotes and open up little pieces of my life for readers before I give my opinion - so they can see where I am coming from. You have shared NOTHING personal.

And please stop putting me down for having a job that requires I do some physical labor - we do what we must, and I have pride in my work, whether it be well-manicured lawn, a sturdy retaining wall I have built, a satirical video poking fun at Romney and Clint, or an editorial about cheating our kids out of real sex education in public schools. And I do so all under my real name. I wish you could say the same "patchreader 123"

I could probably find the time to run for office, but if I managed to squeak out a victory it would be unfair to the residents to have an elected official who could not dedicate enough of their time to the office which where they were elected. I can find a couple of hours here and there to make a video or write a short opinion piece, but to dedicate much more to public office at this time in my life is simply not possible - maybe when the kids are older and I am not splitting my time between practices, plays and performances (and oh yeah, a marriage) I will make that jump to local politics, but I the time needed to commit AFTER an election is simply something I unfortunately don't have... too bad local Republicans don't seem to be bothered by short-changing their constituents.

And you seem to comment A LOT more than I do on politics - why haven't you filled out any nomination papers? Why don't you comment using your real name? Maybe then you would know what it's like to have people try and bully you (by name) when you shop at Pick N Save, buy gas or call Village Hall.

@Patchreader 123

Good post, and you are 100% correct in your assessment that Jason is an attention w*ore. He is nothing more than a paris hilton, kim kardashian, or your typical 14 year old teenage girl who is just so desperate for attention.... for a man's attention in Jason's case *snicker*

But seriously, he is the typical drum beating lib who wants to be on tv, when in reality he is an empty shallow shell who craves attention.

So Jason cuts grass for a living??? Yet he belittles our Governor for not fully completing college?

Such an arrogant nose in the air attitude for a shlub, jason???

Jason:

I for one, am not attempting to 'bully you off the site'. If I'm trying to 'bully' you into anything, it's to include some actual facts in the crap you write.

Have you visited Waukesha's wastewater treatment plant yet? Have you (or your wife) tested their effluent for poop content?

Making factual and thoughtful arguments to state your position goes a long way toward getting the higher level of respect that Lyle and bloggers like him tend to get.

While Lyle does occasionally get more than his share of abuse, people are also more apt to post in his defense and/or flag such comments as 'inappropriate'.

@oak creek resident -- Isn't that what people are supposed to do? Take a job, any job that will hire you, even if you hold a professional degree, and not be too proud to get your hands dirty?

Who's the snob here?

I personally would never hire Panty Waist Patzfahl because he is too stupid to keep posting his crazy liberals ideas under his own name. He obviously has a screw loose.

I'm sure Pennypacker is your real name.

And I am sure that Randall is yours.

I have told you repeatedly, Pennypacker, that my name is not 'Randall'. 'Randy' is short for something you would neither understand or be able to pronounce. And I am smart enough to use the nickname to avoid retaliation from the Pennypackers of this world.

@Randy

I agree with you, take any job you can. I was calling out Jason for acting like an educated snob (EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOT EDUCATED, JUST A SNOB) when it came to Walker. you missed my point.

Once the subject himself weighed in it was inevitable.

He still doesn't seem to understand why Lyle posted this in the first place, or why he did it in the form of a separate article rather than as a comment attached to Jason's piece.

Limpo is checking the Dailykos for a pre-packaged response

@Jason
An attempt to compare yourself to Belling, Sykes or Limbaugh is a joke on countless levels.

If you truly wanted to "to combat the powerful right-wing media in the area", you would do so with facts and not continued hate speech. Not even the liberals are willing to defend you anymore.

Just admit that your attempt at satire and blog writing failed. It would prove your maturity and give you a fresh platform to try writing a blog worth reading.

I always get a kick out of the complaints about WTMJ and WISN when there's statewide network of stations that's predominantly left-leaning in its focus and that's funded, in part, by taxpayers. Somehow that never gets mentioned.

As for you combatting anything, it's best you start with your own demons, to which can be added an inflated ego if you think those guys are losing any sleep over the stuff you post on Patch.

This sums it up. Jason is trying to be big time when he isnt. People like Jason are the reason why left wing talk radio doesnt work. There is nothing to talk about other than scare tactics and hate mongering.

Jason, do you think you represent the left wing? Maybe that is the problem. Hmmmm.

I'm not sure 3K hits on YouTube is considered blowing up, but if it makes you happy...

Seriously, you may not think you're in jeopardy with your current job, and maybe you aren't, but you should really take into consideration how what you post may effect future employment opportunities. This stuff doesn't really have a shelf life and employers do take it into consideration. The odds of you making a career out of being a political satirist are pretty slim. No sense screwing the pooch over what essentially is a hobby.

Skyrocketing? lmao

Jason Patzfahl - a legend in his own mind...

Funny how Lyle's article's comment count is skyrocketing and on a trajectory to rapidly overtake the comment count on Jason's article...

Bob, good words for Jason to ponder. I sure would not want him for an employee, I don't think many people would want a whiner like him.