Where did that number come from? That is the exact same number being thrown around for cuts in health & social services, high speed rail, allocated to medicare, .....

Would it be because financial inputs do not equal cognitive outputs in union run monopoly schools? Since 1970 public education spending has doubled while test results are flat or declining. School employees including every variety of overpaid "specialists" have proliferated to no affect. It's time to try something different.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/president-to-call-for-big-new-ed-spending-heres-a-look-at-how-thats-worked-in-the-past/

Bren: $1.2B? Okay....whatever the amount. How was there any cuts? Nothing was cut from the kids- the teachers took a light shave. Boo Hoo.
Welcome to the real world.

Mau, budget.
Adam, schools can't control what happens at home. MPS for example is a high poverty district with a migratory student/family population. Children's low test scores are in great part the tragic result of much larger social issues.
Craig, the cuts take the form of job and program losses/reductions.

Actually mau, if you take the cuts to state education funding and double it, you get Bren's number.

Kind of like the "million" signatures on the recall petitions.

Here's a CBS news article that puts the total cuts (K-12 and UW system) at $1.8 billion:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/26/politics/main20074509.shtml

Here's another report that includes information about Walker's 2011-2013 budget: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3389

Remember that some of the cuts overall will begin in July 2012.

Sounds like you are so much more intelligent and have better ideas than Governor Walker. Why don't you run for Governor?

Lyle, do you have any idea how to reform education?
What Governor Walker is doing is to bring together experts across the spectrum. Look at the incentive pay initiative. Governor Walker brought together parties with an interest in education: teachers, unions, school board members, the dpi, and others to come up with a plan that would benefit everyone.

On thing I know, if a system is broke, it doesn't matter how much money you dump down into it. Unless fundamental changes are made to the system nothing will change.

@The Anti-Alinsky...It's quite simple, we go to the German system of Education. Almost all of Northern Europe uses the system and it's quite successful and less expensive than what we are currently doing.

@mau....I wouldn't get elected to any office. I have too much of a sordid past. Besides, I wouldn't allow myself to be beholden to those who would put up the money.

Sorry Lyle, but you are wrong again. Gov Walker reached out to every stakeholder that has an interest in reforming education. As usual, WEAC bailed on most of the discussions, prefering to complain about what isn't being done, rather than roll up their sleeves and be part of the solution. So they really don't have much credibility right now. The reforms will come with them kicking and screaming because they don't care about education. What they care about is advancing union interests. Someday you will catch on. BTW, this is USA, not Germany. We used to do fine, until it got corrupted by liberal professional educators.

(part 1)
@Lyle, the German system is polar opposite of the US system. When my son was in school and I was more active with the school, there was a gentleman who was always trying to get RUSD to go to that system, even with just one school. I wasn't impressed with it as then as that system slotted students at a very early age into whether they would be work bound or university bound.
German System:
1) There are no local school or college boards and no PTA's
2) The Department of Education in each of the 16 federal states oversees the state's primary, secondary and career training schools and much of higher education. (not the Federal Government)
3) German schools are strictly for learning and not much goes on in the way of social events. (no field trips, movies, pep rallies, bake sales, etc.).

(part 2)
4) Compulsory schooling begins at age six and continues through age 18. Children between the ages of three and six may attend a Kindergarten (day-care center, nursery school). Enrollment is optional. Kindergarten are operated by municipalities, churches and charitable organizations and are not part of the state's compulsory school system.
5) In the first four grades of elementary school, all children are taught together. The curriculum stresses language skills and mathematics. During the fourth year of elementary school, children and their parents usually decide on the type of secondary school which begins with grade 5. The choice is determined by a student's aptitudes, career aspirations and grades. (what a concept, grades)

There is much more. Is this really what you are proposing the US go to. Right now the US is going in the totally opposite direction. I can't imagine this ever being accepted if the unions get their way and get collective bargaining back. This sounds more like something a Republicans like Ron Paul would propose.

@mau The biggest difference with the German system is the absence of a ridiculous insistence on "college for all." As you allude to, the college prep/vocational training track begins by late elementary school with assessments of a student's academic potential. By high school over half of all students opt for vocational training that results in a general education diploma and a "qualification" in hundreds of occupations. German and Swiss employers have well established apprenticeship programs and they collaborate with the schools to provide work based learning.

Contrast that situation with the US where nearly 70 percent of high school grads go to college but only 55 percent of those graduate within 6 years. The US has the highest college dropout rate in the industrialized world and if you back out the degrees in English Literature, Queer Studies, Sociology, History, etc we have the least educated work force in the Western world.

For proof positive look no further than the commenters here who think state spending on education or anything else can continue unabated after an economic contraction in 2008-2009 that slashed tax collections and threw state budgets into deficit.

@Adam, we fought with RUSD and my son because their idea of school-to-work was to work for Swan's Pumpkin Farm or Farm & Fleet. I really wanted my son to go to college but he wanted to go into the trades. We compromised. We agreed with the school-to-work program his senior year but his Case shop teacher had to find him a job in the trades. They did. He also had to prepare himself for both technical and college prep courses so that by senior year, if he changed his mind, he could go either direction. He did. He got his journeyman plumbing license by age 25 but now there is no work. So he is working at changing occupations.

@mau -- It's a tough deal if your son can't find work as a journeyman plumber, those guys usually do quite well if they can catch on (is he residential or commercial?) He could easily make the transition to pipefitter and work for a fire sprinkler company or something but the commercial side of the trades is slow. A four year degree qualifies him to do what exactly, assistant manager at a retail store? I don't think he made a mistake.

@Adam, he has experience in both. The apprenticeship is 5 years and he spent the first 2 years in residential and the last 3 years in commercial. He still takes classes and keeps adding state licenses for other skills. There is a combination of little construction, union lines and lots of upstart non-union plumbing companies playing into the picture. He could go non-union but he is indentured to the union for a few years and it would cost big bucks to get out of it. There are still plus's to being in the union as he takes advantage of all their classes. He would like to go for Master but needs a company to sponsor him for 3 years. Going into another trade would mean another apprenticeship and starting at the bottom again. No matter what route he decides to take plumbing will always be there for him.

jt, no need to get racist about it

Got it John.
I was hoping you would see my post ;)
Actually it is just my block. But I was upset with how lousy the roads were last night.

"our reforms" bothers me. I thought getting school control back to the local community was a conservative goal. The state and federal agencies certainly can advise but to control is no better than the unions. Give us back our money and let us decide. Reforming by taking our taxes then using them to achieve outside goals hasn't worked.

The WI state superintendent was left out of the the final deal.

That is no way to treat Evers! but the TeaGOP does not care. They do not know how to govern.

That the TeaGOP seeks only to RULE vs govern in the tradition of WI good government is the scary--and very sad case.

We have pumped more money into education for decades and see declining results. Should we really be dumping more money into a failing system? Expecting different results while repeating the same mistakes is insanity!

Craig,
Lets clarify and put into context. We have been putting more money in and continue to see a decline in results despite parents decreasing their roles in children's lives, expecting schools to carry out more "parenting" roles while giving them less power of the students, and questioning the procedures of the schools while providing next to no support in the process.

correction : power "over" the students

Where did you see or hear this about parent controls??

Satire is lost on some people.

Great post, Mr. Welbes!

You are comparing Wisconsin in 2012 to Moscow in the 1920’s? You have gone off the deep end. In addition, there are a number of mistakes in your “comparison”:
1) The Soviet Union always bragged about close to 100% voter turn out in elections. They actually had candidate suppression, where only the communist candidate appeared on the ballot.
2) The Koch’s are Dutch, not Russian.
3) Your health care comment is correct, but it was obviously much less advanced in the 1920’s. Even in the United States there were still areas that had very few doctors over a very large area.
4) You are correct about the gun control, at least until 1929. Mainly because Stalin did not consolidate his power until 1928.
5) Stalin did not “sell”. He acquired, using the authority of the state. There was no need for him to sell since he was “dictator for life”.

As for the rest of your comparisons, the ones that are historically accurate are a jump off the deep end. We still have and continue to have freedom of speech (at least for Liberals, apparently Conservatives are not allowed to express their opinions). There are no gulags for political dissidents. In fact, as long as they stay in Dane County they can essentially assault Republican lawmakers without repercussion. We still have the right to keep and bear arms, and improved thanks to Governor Walker. Health care is still widely available, but still unfortunately, still too expensive.

TGFSW

Actually Anti, Jerry Person is correct that Fred Koch worked in/for the Soviet Union, but this was actually between 1929 and 1932. He made $5m for his work for that communist government. For context, according to DollarTimes.com, $1 in 1932 was worth $15.01 in 2011. He had been sued by multiple oil companies over a 1927 invention. He eventually won, but his company ran out of money so he went overseas for several years.

Does the council look at strings attached to the money? We have for too long taken money that tied us up or tied is down or lead us with the strings attached. Let
us look at why $$ were not taken before we say foul.

The real issue jt is that state government is going to have to do more with less. Just like in the private sector where pay and benefits have taken a big hit over the last several years city, county and state workers will be required to work harder and smarter to increase productivity.

There seems to be confusion about cause and effect. As a direct result of the economic collapse in 2008-2009 most state governments are taking in significantly less revenue and unlike the federal government they can't play pretend by printing money we don't have. The last state budget under Doyle and a democratic legislature used $3.4 billion in one time federal stimulus money and raised taxes by over $2 billion to increase spending in the face of large, known structural deficits. Is that the kind of responsible leadership we're looking for?

Under Walker we have gone from a $3 billion deficit to a $300 million surplus in ONE year without raising taxes. The taxpayers of Wisconsin pay plenty for municipal services, if our overpaid and oh so entitled AFSME workers can't do their jobs and like it we need to put those services out for bid ASAP.

P.S. Tell me you don't actually believe that completely debunked lefty chestnut about the Koch brothers scheming to buy worthless Wisconsin power plants?

Jt, if you believe the Tea Party has its origins in religion you're either not paying attention or getting your information from partisan and ignorant sources. Some of the most hateful things I've ever read were from dyed in the wool leftists.

At the risk of blowing your mind, you are aware that the big lie of the 20th century is that Nazism was Rightist. The Nazis or National Socialists were the quintessential progressives of their day, even advancing Europe's first "green" agenda in the 1930's. I think we all know how that one ended. What is it about Liberalism that inevitably leads to war, wholesale mass murder and economic ruin?

jt I agree with you. The Tea Party has damaged everyone, including its members who all seem to have evolved into extremely hateful people, its hard to understand what motivates these people to stay banned together when the proof of the harm they have caused to WI is everywhere. That's all I witnessed coming from them during their bus tour. There was a very good article on acts of kindness written on the Wood bury patch, that would benefit everyone to read and to start practicing. If people would start trying to do nice things for others they wouldn't have any time to waste on hating others. Respect and treat people kindly.

Apparently you're not familiar with the private bid process. Do you hire someone to paint your house and tell them to send you a bill for whatever when you're done?

A request for proposal would be put out by the county, for example, to provide winter plowing services. Private companies determine a price they can meet the terms and conditions set forth in the request and still make (are you sitting down?) a profit on the transaction. The more efficient they work (smarter, faster) the more profit they make, until somebody else figures out a way to do it better. If taxpayers are not happy with the quality of goods or services being provided they can fire the contractor and start over.

An open, competitive market holds down prices; we should really try it with health insurance. If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until its "free" and the only way to control costs is by rationing services (no such thing as a free lunch.) When we're talking about medical services this translates into waiting lists and increased pain and suffering for the patient.

Koch Industries is a profitable company that would like to stay that way. They have zero interest in Wisconsin's antiquated and environmentally out of compliance coal fired power plants. Obsolete heating and cooling plants do not fit their current operations or business model.

Walker wants to peddle these losers precisely because they are more of a liability than an asset. Unfortunately, their huge potential environmental liabilities make them literally worthless to potential buyers. You really can't believe everything you read on the interwebz, especially if it was written or funded by Think Progress.

Non sequitur much jt? Socialists and Communists are dictators therefor Walker is a dictator? Stop texting and focus on the road.

Walker's policies may impact the comfort and convenience of city, county and state employees but that's a price the people who pay their very generous salaries and benefits are willing to pay.

@jt.. don't worry about poor Adam. He doesn't seem to know that the NAZI part was a fascist party, which is far, far to the right. He gets fooled by the use of "Socialist' in the offical name of the party. If Adam were to do some serious research he might find this out. He might find out that the political philosophy behind the NAZI party was partially founded to be anti-communist.

However, Adam like most of the "conservative" type who post here are bothered by "facts".

Wow, you really did go to a public school.

So far you have you and your friend...that makes 2.
Not sure if Guilligan is registered, so you might want to check with him.

hahaha Funny Craig. It's looking like you better go back the the Government school to learn how to READ and COUNT! When you do pick up a paper, even one from a major city far away and you'll learn something.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/01/walker-recall-leaders-claim-more-than-1-million-signatures/1

ThirstyHole: I can both read and count. I was taught not to count your chickens until they are hatched. Don't count your votes based on the number of signatures.

If school children aren't manufactured products then why do school teachers need a union? We're not talking about sweatshops and 80 hour work weeks. Union member used to mean someone working in the trades or on the factory floor. Who exactly are the greedy and powerful interests public unions are organized against besides the taxpayer?

Public education is not a relative bargain. We pay exponentially more and get less or the same in return. The rate of inflation in education has exceeded housing prices, healthcare prices, gas prices and the average hourly wage.

Between 1982 and 2007 tuition and fees at colleges rose 439 percent while median family income went up just 147 percent. I know what you would say if profits for big pharma or big oil went up that much. Monopoly public schools run by and for the benefit of unions and their members is the reason why. We need to fire the teachers unions, not kids or teachers.

I guess I could ask you if you understand exponents. And, while the tuition and fees have risen by 439%, what have the wages and benefits of the worker risen?

Dave what to you call a pension and then another pension not teaching kids then retire with a pretty good life at 55 to 65 years old, no you did not run a business into the ground just a bunch of kids that can’t read.

So teacher accountability should take a back seat to protecting bad teachers? Let's face it, there are good teachers but there are also too many who shouldn't be in the teaching profession. Collective bargaining workplace rules like tenure make it impossible to fire bad teachers. One out of every 57 doctors lose their license to practice medicine, one out of every 97 lawyers lose their license to practice law but only one out every 1000 teachers in urban areas is fired due to poor performance. You don't think the average public school teacher is that much more competent do you?

Strangely, you can take a child from the worst ghetto in the country and put them in a charter school like the KIPP Academy and by the end of one year they significantly outperform their public school peers. We can easily have public education without public schools by giving parents the $10,000-20,000 per pupil we spend and letting them decide which school or educational philosophy best fits their child.

If it's true that parents are clamoring for pregnancy counseling and pre-school breakfast they can vote with their dollars. If they want a school that focuses on academic results rather than the educational flavor of the month (SMART goals, PBIS, RTI, 21st century skills, etc) they can go elsewhere.

My guess is you're not qualified to run a company into anything, even the ground. But if you'd like to try your hand in the private sector and make some easy money c'mon in, the waters fine.

@Adam Wienieski -- I'd be all for teacher accountability if there were a way of evaluating teachers objectively. But there isn't. Test scores don't tell the story, because teachers are faced with students of differing abilities.

"We can easily have public education without public schools by giving parents the $10,000-20,000 per pupil we spend and letting them decide which school or educational philosophy best fits their child."

There is a problem with that, because those figures are just averages. Some children have very expensive educational needs, while other are less costly to educate. An 'average' voucher will leave the parents of some special needs children unable to afford a school.

Adam,
It is funny that you bring up the "flavor of the month" as public schools are required to do PBiS, RTI, SMART goals, NCLB and the such by mandates. Then, as they do this, you accuse them of failure to concentrate on what you find important. You then compare public schools to private, to schools that do not have to meet government mandates, who can pick and choose their raw product. The long and short of you "ghetto" student is this: Kids in private schools have parents involved enough in their lives to make a difference. When you start with that as your input, your output will be a higher caliber. Maybe, if you want schools to be "successful", you should allow them to kick out all students that don't cut the mustard. Just get rid of them, only teach the brightest kids, and then look at the scores for standardized test compared to your favorite, private schools.

Jerry you need to relax a little, maybe your mommy needs to give you a time out.

I thought you were on a time out, takes your sleepy pills and relax

What the bill does is tighten the limitations on the liability to those who KNOWINGLY create, distribute harmful products.

This is no different than holding you liable for the garbage that someone buried on your land 60 years ago that is now seeping into the ground water and causing you and your neighbors to be sick.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/proposals/sb373

Thanks to both of you Anti- and jt. You guys duke it out over which one you think I might like better ;-)

Anti, I just listened to Scooter's audio, ( thanks again for providing the link ). Ya know,
Maybe Gov. Walker really is the next Ray Gun, that he aspires to be? Cause, his acting job in this is pretty darn good. I know If I REALLY cared about students and education, the first thing I'd to too would be to cut $1.8 BILLION with a B from there budget. Then I'd proceed to demonize teachers, institute employee hand books that pretty much include GAG orders from speaking out and strike the "Fear of the Lord" into them. Now I see why people LOVE Walker's reforms. Because they save them a couple of bucks on their property taxes. I nominate Gov. Walker for THE EDUCATION Governor. I wonder how many teachers would vote for that? What a Joke!

thuston, love your comments! try this link it's another eye opener! http://scottwalkerwatch.com/2011/12/18/koch-brothers-funded-maciver-institute-caught-in-lie-about-questionable-recall-petition-signatures/

Here you go thirsty:
http://165.189.60.210/Images/Radio%20Addresses/11912%20radio%20address.mp3
All it took was a little research to find the correct link.

Are you 13 years old? The interweb is a scary place turn it off and go play outside.

Would be lovely if the TeaGOP got their news from Stewart vs Faux 'news
who were recently banned from broadcasting in Canada because they LIE.

Zelda, are you referring to "The Corporate Raider (job creator), The Serial Liar Lobbyist, The Relgious Loon (Bachmann's replacement), or the "Crank"?

Once the TEAPublicans needed a great big Clown Bus for all of them to ride in to the Debates (Circus), but now they are back to renting a Mini Cooper Clown Bus. After Santorum gives up perhaps they can all ride together in a Honda Goldwing with a Sidecar for the rotund one.

I can not buy union or support American workers I am a republitard. I hate freedom and the democracy crap. I support the King Grover norquist. I have kissed his ring. I beleive outsoursing jobs has helped the race to the bottom tremendously. It will finish what king George W started. One man rule just like mother Russia. Everyone poor. I will still have hand outs from my rich mommy. GOP/KGB all the way. It will get rid of Obama. Who cares about the future as a republitard I have none. Republicans only have hunting dogs. That way when it bites them they can shoot it. Even there dogs dislike republitartds.

@greg, the old boy is coo coo for cocoa puffs.

@greg... once again you prove that TEAPublicans have no sense of humor nor understanding of irony. You can look it up and find that authoritarian conservatives have a poorly developed sense of humor because like G.W. Bush said, "I don't do nuances".

What perverison? what communisum? were are you comming from, I get that your mad because Walker took away your right to be a lazy worker now you may need to be there all day doing something or you may be...... fired!!! pull your head out of your as# and wake up a new day is here deal with it. and in Wisconsin a guy like you would be call a jerry person

don't worry jerry, greg is probably in management or a buisiness owner who wonders why he can't keep good help because he profits off of the backs of his workers but don't share the good fortune! that is why he see s workers as lazy, because the good ones move on to bigger and better things! they don't need greg, greg needs them. but he treats them like robots.

collective bargain is not a right , why did FDR not have it for the fed unions? Reagan said that? then what happened to the air traffic, he was talking about Private unions.

oh, i see greg, so the economy gets rough and you can't take a hit, so your employee takes the hit, and i too am living in this economy, but i take the hit for everyone else
because i left the construction feild 25 years ago to become a public employee so that i could support my family by not having to be out of town all the time. now prices are up, my wages are down, and fools like you assumethat i am greedy or lazy! things are rough for all workers greg! but there are a certain rich few that are profitting on our losses and they are the ones handing money to our governor. and as payback , he is taking from public employees to fund their tax breaks and he wants to create a climate in wisconsin where workers private and public will have to be submissive to the whims of the rich. wake up greg! all hardworking people in this state are working harder for less! and walker doesn't care about us because we don't line his pockets!

You are greedy, this comment proves it "so the economy gets rough and you can't take a hit, so your employee takes the hit"

Yep, that's exactly how it works. For the business to survive when revenue is down cuts are made. Try starting a business yourself and see how likely you are to give control of it over to your employees.

Same goes for the state. Revenue is down and cuts have to be made.
Raising taxes on the rich is just you being greedy. As a public employee this is your source of revenue and you want more of it. Instead of creating a product or service on your own you want more in a down economy. Business in this state does not get a free ride, we pay plenty for you to have a job and receive benifits.

I suppose we could have laid off public workers, just like the private sector as had to do. I don't see you giving credit for Walker saving your job.

Your union talking points are old and tirring.

@greg... how to you justify Scooter taking most of his time (that TAXPAYERS pay for) to spend his time in NY, and CA and other places sucking up to get money to defend his sorry performances?

Is that what his gummint salary is for? For him to spend his time fund raising?

If your business is you and one other employee, I am amazed that you support TEAPublicans. They laugh at people like you and use you as tools. They support the Big Folks and you ain't one of them.

No matter what you do, they would outsource your job and your livelihood to China if they could.

The TEAPublicans are for Big Business and Wall St. Always have and always will be.

You complain that you might have to lay off your employee. Why? Because 30 years of TEAPublican "trickle down" economics haven't worked. They trickled down allright, right on your head. The income of hardworking people like you has remained flat for nearly 30 years. Not so for the folks who control the TEAPublican Party; their income has tripled or better in the same time that their policies have dumped on you.

i truly feel sorry for people like you who have worked your butt off and given your heart and soul to your small business. You have mistakenly voted for a political party which has deliberately sh*t on you.

You sure find some loopy ones on the interweb.

How did you feel about Doyle spending time in Spain spending millions for a train that never happened?

You nut bags are forcing a recall, why would he not raise funds to defend it?

If you want more money go work harder, obviously you are jealous of the rich and want it handed to you for free.

remember, if they just keep the unions out it will all be better...

I wrote it. Why are there oil lobbyist in the capitol after a taconite mining bill was being presented?

lots of lobby influence....

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/legislators-worked-with-gogebic-taconite-on-mining-bill-593fk2n-135902053.html

Oil lobby influence? If you're going to put out propaganda at least get the lobby scare tactics correct. Also love the fake "shame shame" soundtrack that was inserted.

Does it haunt you at night?

The SHAME is REAL! And it should be!

Your vocabulary is short, find a new word.

Socialism is being killed painfully and it is fun to watch.

Lovely day in OUR House

http://rootriversiren.blogspot.com/2012/01/mark-pocan-is-awesome.html?spref=tw
millbot Emily Mills
Rep. Pocan's office window at the Capitol today. #wirecall lockerz.com/s/177694099

You can't haunt yourself

So by this definition our country could be described as being dragged toward Definition 3. National socialism. That's not scary at all.

@mau....There are a number of structural systems included in socialism. I am a proponent of social democracy which advocates private ownership and regulated capitalism, while providing social justice. It is also referred to as enlightened capitalism.

@ Bren, when you do a search on National Socialism it redirects you to Nazism.

Who said:

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions"

(I'll take Adolph Hitler for $200, Alex.)

The full name of Hitler's political party was Nationalsozialistisch or translated "The National Socialist German Workers' Party." The Nazis were wholly opposed to the classical liberal American values of limited government, personal liberty and individual rights. They believed in state control of every aspect of people's lives. It's no coincidence that everyone who advocated genocide of Jews, Kulaks or enemies of the people also called himself a socialist.

Hey hey! Ho Ho! Your pissin and moaning has got to go!
Seen the Marquette Poll?

jt -- You must really detest Obama after what he's done to the business climate and consumer confidence. Glad to hear you're on board with Anybody But Obama for 2012.

@Adam
Try to stay focused if you can. Distracting like you do just makes you look like a wuzz who does not want to address the content of the post (jt's).

Don't you love the welfare state
Gee our old LaSalle ran great
These are the days

(Please Zelda, you're supposed to drink your Kool-Aid not take it intravenously.)

Right, because if you want a job you should have to pay a union to get it.